Curse

savage vapor 33 · May 23, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Loot Scaling is one of the best updates to the game. Its evening out the game which was inflated for a lot time. Yeah it caused bots, but bots will always take advantage of anything no matter what.

Xyzzy · May 23, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I think the main problem is how they did the code for HM, it just seems hacked together. If you look at some of the early areas you can see this a little more clearly. If you understand how C works and the code they had to add to make it happen. That or if you happen it have a bite reader which pull out the assembly code from the .exe file so you can see the changes in the updates of the client side. If you have a packet reader you also see what it does server side as well.

Ensign · May 24, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

I think the rewards just flopped. Like it or not, the bulk of PvE players play for the rewards. Without the rewards for playing and completing Hard Mode challenges, most players won't bother. Obviously, a title for completing big swaths of content didn't cut it. Who knew?

Hard Mode itself is pretty well implemented and balanced. I was impressed by how the low level zones played in general. I think it'd be really popular endgame gameplay, if it were profitable.

Peace,
-CxE

Calen The Civl · May 25, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

It would be some nice variety to allow special higher damage, PvE Hard Mode only weapons to drop in hard mode. For example, instead of just 15-22 damage swords dropping, a special 20-27 damage PvE only sword will drop on rare occasions that only does the extra damage in hard mode. Such gear could provide some more of the idea of rewards that players are looking for without completely messing up what PvE balance there is.

Just an idea to throw out there.

Overall, I dislike the rather "cheesy" difficulty implementation. I would have preferred better mob team builds and skill bars over a Diablo 2-esque level and damage increase.

Kaleban · May 25, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

I didn't bother to read most of the thread, and have not seen whether Gaile posted in here.

But I did not want to start another thread on the same topic, so I'll just post my thoughts.

ANet. WTF?

Band Aid to fix a .45 slug to the head.

Perhaps its just me, but everytime lately ANet decides to actually "fix" something, they end up screwing up three or four other things that weren't fixed in the process!

Now I know they MUST have talented coders on the team, unless they fired everyone who originally coded GW and are just keeping unpaid interns on staff to "update" things.

A singular example from which to extrapolate. I just did 20 runs in Hard Mode solo on Eshim Mindclouder, a Mesmer boss.

No tome. No green. In total? A scroll of Adventurer's Insight, 25 Wood Planks, a non-max blue Cane, and 26 Plant Fibers. That's including killing 4 or 5 additional mobs before and/or after Eshim dies.

Glider of chaos · May 25, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Just wow. So many "shut up, stop whining, go get a buddy" posts here. Of cause they made me change my opinion. I don't think HM needs any fixing now.

I think HM should be just destroyed and rebuilt from a scratch. I'm saying that HM is too hard. But it's not fun. Once you figure out nice build for the area (btw this build will probably work in many other HM areas) it becomes really repetitive. Just watch your step, aggro 1 group at a time, dispatch them and go for the next. Coordination is nice trait to have here... but everything else is not needed.

freekedoutfish · May 25, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

...Perhaps its just me, but everytime lately ANet decides to actually "fix" something, they end up screwing up three or four other things that weren't fixed in the process!...

Have you ever tried writing a fairly complicated piece of software?

You can change one tiny thing to fix an error, and it has major knock on effects you dont expect. It doesnt matter how skilled a programmer you are, you can predict the unexpected. Programming isnt like clicking your fingers and fixing every little issue.

It really annoys me, when people dont appreciate how hard it is to write softeware and they think its a walk in the park. And im sorry, but who cares whether you got a green drop or not from doing 20 solo runs at a boss.

You are aware that the drop rate on greens is very small!! You could do 100 runs and not get a single drop, and then on the 101st run you do.

Its just bad luck, get over it!!! I played through the whole of NF and didnt get one single green drop, and considering there are dozens of greens in that game, the odds say I should have got atleast 1!

While I got loads of greens in Tryia and the odd few in cantha!

But do you see me winging about it? Nope! Just save up and buy the green from someone, like I did for Ragos!

Not getting greens isnt a side effect of bad programming! If anything its a sign that it works, because greens are meant to be hard to drop and you do realise there is anti-farming code that reduces your drop rate if you re-do an area?

If you're going to re-run an area 20 times, do you not think it will kick in?

And the green drop rate doesnt increase just because its HM! I have guardian of Tyria and from all the HM missions I did there, I only got around 10 golds max! the odd tome and the odd lock-pick. Just get used to it and god forbid anyone play there game purely for fun of missions and quests.

dts720666 · Jun 15, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Ok, seriously, is there anti-farming code in HM or not? I know Gaile says there is not, but really, so many people experience it, is it possible that the code is in there and just overlooked by a developer?

I've been farming SS/LB points pretty heavily the last few days. On this run, we kill about 35 Margonites, 40 Awakened, 20 Monoliths, 5 Mandragor, and 3 bosses. The first five runs or so, I had amazing drops. They were So excessively lavish, I thought I was playing a different game. I was playing with a group of 5, and for about 5 runs in a row, I got about 3 gold drops a run, several grapes, a tome or two each run, plus nearly filled my bags to the brim with loot.

Then the drops slowly stopped dropping. At first, it was only 1-2 golds per run, and my bags only half filled.

Last night, it went to 0 golds per run (for 6 runs in a row), and only 4-6 items in my bag when I was done. I didn't even fill my backpack. Also, I generally open 1-2 locked chests per run. On these runs last night, I got nothing but grapes from the chests. I'm of the persuasion that all HM locked chests should drop golds...

Anyway, if anti-farming code is not in place, how come this seems to be a consistent pattern for players who farm?

Patrick Smit · Jun 15, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I think the rewards just flopped. Like it or not, the bulk of PvE players play for the rewards. Without the rewards for playing and completing Hard Mode challenges, most players won't bother. Obviously, a title for completing big swaths of content didn't cut it. Who knew?

Hard Mode itself is pretty well implemented and balanced. I was impressed by how the low level zones played in general. I think it'd be really popular endgame gameplay, if it were profitable.

Peace,
-CxE

So Ensign u think that just boosting attributes and damage output is way more balanced then adjusting team composition, and AI? (NOI, just asking what u think)

It is challenging that I agree, but balanced is really something else (IMO), u just hope that u are in time to catch the next "spike". Better teamplay (monks in the back etc.) by enemies would have been much better

klrk · Jun 15, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

thanks to this idiotic loot scaling updates
they made more bot farmer , more scammers
and chase more players away
to tell the truth , who would want to play a hard game ?? ( especially economics in gw , try go in the game and check out the market , its sux now )
well done anet
you killed the game

dargon · Jun 15, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Klrk, if you really think so, then please, don't let the door hit you on the way out. I may not agree with every change that ANet has made (quite frankly, I hate the aftercast on interrupts that was added many moons ago), but I do understand the reasoning behind it and accept that just because I hate it doesn't mean it wasn't the right right thing to do. Just because you can no longer sell a sup vigor to the merchant for 90 plat or the cost of ecto has dropped to a much more reasonable level doesn't mean the economy is ruined. Prices drop naturally in any market, just look at the cost of LCD tv's today, as opposed to 3 years ago.

Mangione · Jun 15, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I'm playing HM, but how is supposed to be fun a party of djinn that wipes out your party in a second?

Ok, you adopt different strategies, but is just "hack at them really hard before they hack at you back"

And, while I can understand lvl 24 charr in areas where normally they are 6/7th, I don't see the reason to rise the level of the ring of fire critters (as if they were not strong enough before)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its just bad luck, get over it!!! I played through the whole of NF and didnt get one single green drop, and considering there are dozens of greens in that game, the odds say I should have got atleast 1!

We're on the same ship...

frojack · Jun 15, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Hard mode could have been really interesting... However it's not. Just arbitrary click a spread sheet adjustments. Play it and see if it's doable - ok it is, next.

Just a game of snow-plow with more snow than in normal mode.

Shit...

Evilsod · Jun 15, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Seriously... stop with the pathetic comebacks of 'have you ever tried writing a program'. Writing a program is not my f*cking job. I'm assuming people working at Anet are employed to do such a thing, perhaps its a little cruel of us to ask them to do there job PROPERLY!

Hard mode is just 1 huge shortcut taken by Anet. They said they 'tested it', bullshit. They said they 'were going to pay attention to enemy skillbars', bullshit. They gave Dolyak Masters 'Banish' for christ sake. They upped everythings stats, gave it unbalanced buffs then tried to pass it off as 'improved AI'.

They haven't got a single thing right with Hard Mode. All it did was give people something to do until they got sick of its pathetic rewards. If the didn't even get that far they just farmed it for the improved gold drop rate. I have Leg Vanquisher/Guardian. I decided to go vanquish Tasca's Demise again earlier, what do i get? 83 enemies later i get 249 gold and a bit of experience, whoop-de-doo. I could get more farming some dumb mob for a bit and selling a single gold unid. Was it fun? Apart from getting to see 12 overpowered Stone Summit hit the deck without 1 casualty, not really.

I'll just go right ahead and assume that Gaile, the worlds most useless PR gal' hasn't posted in here? Oh wait course not... its not a dig at minipets.

I have no problems with Hard Mode (except that Ele/Rit bosses are getting really out of hand now), i just have problems with what Anet have been saying they'll deliver and not even coming close. Anyone gonna put money on these new Sunspear skills been a huge pile of wank after all this wait? Extended testing (according to Gaile) means nothing, they're PvE skills, implement the damn things and fix them if they go wrong, having the odd broken 1 is better than none at all.

Kinn · Jun 15, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

I think the main problem is how they did the code for HM, it just seems hacked together. If you look at some of the early areas you can see this a little more clearly. If you understand how C works and the code they had to add to make it happen. That or if you happen it have a bite reader which pull out the assembly code from the .exe file so you can see the changes in the updates of the client side. If you have a packet reader you also see what it does server side as well.

Actually it's more like this: you know how code is actually just like 1's and 0's right? Well it turns out that HM monsters' AI uses a proportionately larger number of 1's than 0's, compared to their normal mode counterparts. Because 1's are a more awkward shape than a nice smooth 0, they sometimes have a hard time flowing through the network cables. Can you see where I'm going with this? Use a long cable, loop it round lots of times, crease it, tie it in a knot, whatever. Bam! 1's get stuck, more 0's get through in their place and the AI becomes closer to normal mode.

I've made enough dough to buy full sets of FoW armour for all my toons + ~2 mill in petty cash since HM was introduced just by farming using this little trick.

MagicWarrior · Jun 18, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

There is one main reason I will soon no longer be playing Hard Mode: it's too hard for me with a group of henchies/heroes. Perhaps my skill level can be put to question - nevertheless, it's no fun... especially when the drops are so crap when in a hench group (or in general it seems).

On a side note, too bad Vanquisher title isn't also in Normal mode. At least it would give me something to do while going for Cartographer.

Dougal Kronik · Jun 18, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

It's too bad that HM wasn't the big save for the game that Anet hoped it would be.

Since the game has become more effort than fun recently, especially with the Loot Scaling, many members of my guild only log on to reset their timers.

Players must have rewards for effort, and that is seriously lacking in the game at the moment, both in Normal and Hard Mode. And the items that were supposedly exempt from Loot Scaling don't drop any more often.

Well, hopefully something revolutionary will come with GWEN.